S1E12 Finding Content Gigs at Nonprofits with Tina Davis

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 0:08

Hello, listeners. If you are curious about technical communications, then this podcast is for you. On each episode, I will interview a guest who will share the unique journey. This is inside tech comm with Zohra Mutabanna. Let's get started. I'm honored to welcome today's guest, Tina Davis. Hi, Tina, how you doing?

Tina Davis: 0:33

I'm doing great. How are you?

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 0:35

I'm doing very well. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited to have you on my show. And you know, just to learn a little bit about yourself. Now, I was looking at your LinkedIn profile. And I stole this quote from your profile. I've taken a long, adventurous road on my way to becoming a technical writer. And I think that's the perfect way to introduce yourself, please tell us, what did that adventurous road look like?

Tina Davis: 1:00

That will show this road look like a couple of stints in college. And I did some work as an administrative assistant, I have taught dance, I've done a little bit of everything. And I think I'm the kind of person who feels like all of your life's experience inside and outside of your career really shaped who you are. So technical communication as a second career for me. My first degree was from the University of Florida, in television. And I actually spent some years as a television editor. And as a news producer, I got out of that. And as I like to tell my friends, I spent my 30s kind of finding myself and doing all kinds of different things. When I moved to Texas, that married my husband sort of was at that age where you start thinking about, you know, what your next stage of your life is going to be, I really wanted to go back to school, get an English degree and scratch my itch to become a writer. But of course, like every one of you writer and like, well, I also need a real job to pay the bills. So I would starting back at school, in my mid 40s, of University of North Texas, and in Texas, getting my English degree, but also was wondering what I could do, writing wise to pay the bills, and my husband who is in it has been an IT professional for about 20 years or so, just put a bug in in my ear, you know, you're rather technically minded and you're interested in technology, and you're a good writer, you should check and see if your English department has any technical writing courses. And of course, I said, you know, what's technical writing, and he's like, you know, I haven't worked with a lot of technical writers, but they're generally the people who explain things to other people. You know, they write documentation. And they they, you know, they make it easy for the people who are non it people to to to understand, like, Okay, get behind. And I was very lucky that the University of North Texas is rare in the fact that they have a standalone Technical Communication Department with undergrad and graduate programs. So Originally, it was going to be, oh, take a few courses, I'll get a certificate. And then that sort of changed into a minor. And then the next thing I know, I graduated with a double minor, in English in effective communication. And so that was a combination of going back to school and trying to find a second career. But as I've worked, and done technical communication, I've really found that there are skills in my previous career and in my previous experiences that have really, really been helpful. And so that's the long adventures rather, that might be changing. Now, what might be changing now is I don't think I was just saying, I don't think a lot of people wake up, and I'm going to be a technical writer when I grew up. But I think that's actually changing as technical writers get more exposure. And people understand what technical communication technical writing is, and how that field is touching all kinds of other fields. They may not know that they want to be a technical writer, when they grow up, they think they they kind of find their way there. And so you know, I think for me, whether you're changing careers, or whether you're a young person who's you know, getting into college the first time, there are more and more people who who want to do the things we do.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 4:31

I think everything that you said there was a lot of, I guess, nuggets of information in there that I wish I could capture. I couldn't keep up with the notes. So I just came up. One of the things that you said was, oh, you thought about doing some certification and before you know it, you are doing a double minor. Right, a double major, a double major, my apologies are double major. But you know, you've not only transitioned but you've transitioned and During very successful in your role as a technical writer, and I say that because I personally have gotten to know you the last few years, and I've seen in a manner of speaking your journey into technical writing, and how you became active outside of just the education that you were gaining. And, and we'll kind of dive into that a little bit. But I want to go back to your awesome story that you shared with us about how you kind of you had that point in your life where you thought, Okay, I need to get a job that will pay me the bills. I would like to kind of explore that question that statement a little more. What are other careers that you looked at? and felt that Oh, compared to that technical writing would pay me a little better? Did you do any research there anything that you'd like to share?

Tina Davis: 5:48

I did a certain amount of research when I was when I decided to, at least to get a minor in technical writing. Because I wanted to be completely unfamiliar with the career I wasn't even sure what the pay scale was in, you know, as you get closer to graduation, you so think about things about your first job. But you know, if they ask you, what do you want your salary to be? Or, you know, those those kind of questions. For me, actually, one of the best sites was the National Labor site that has a lot of great statistics about technical writers, as you know, their general their median pay scale, information about growth, or positive nerve growth, as far as how many technical writers they anticipate, will enter the marketplace and enter the workplace, different industries, that that technical writers work in, it's predominantly manufacturing, software, technology, those sort of things, but other things that you wouldn't think about a medical, you know, there's a need for technical communicators to to make medicine, and health and those kinds of issues. much more easier to I guess, I think about the situation we're in with, with COVID. And everything about how information about the virus vaccinations, we've all become sort of sort of armchair epidemiologists, you know, in the last night, and I think about it every once in a while, whether it's an article, or whether it's a white paper or something, there is somebody working to make all of this information that is very voluminous and very, very tough to grasp, easier to grasp, just to literally save lives. So you know, things like that. And so the national labor statistics on the field, were very helpful for me, as a student, that's how I met you. That's how I got involved as a student, as a student member of my local STC chapter. And that was helpful, you know, seeing people who had taken this career. And they were some more traditional technical writers as we think of but some people have gotten into marketing, and some people have gotten into UX and usability design, and some people have gotten into instructional design. And so just seeing all the different ways that you can, you can take this knowledge and put it out there in the world was really helpful.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 8:20

Thanks, Tina, you know, that was going to be my follow up question as in, what did you do outside of education? And you kind of answered that, yes,

Tina Davis: 8:28

you know, your network basic network, getting involved is, is very important. And talking to other people, again, that's one of the reasons why I consider myself lucky that I got into the program that I did, they're very encouraging. Because it's a separate program, they can really look at different ways to be a technical communicator. And so I met other students who were into usability design, I met students who wanted to be proposal writers, I met students who wanted to, to write medical white papers and, and I met God help them I met, I met kids who really wanted to do research, research has never been the most fun thing for me to do. But I actually met students who were like, yeah, I'm maybe not the strongest writer, but I'm a great editor. I love research. And I'm like, bless you. And so there's a place for people who really, really want to dig down in the weeds, the weeds and getting those details and do research. And so that was really cool about the program. And outside of that, you know, I tried to maintain some of those relationships, but networking, I think is one of the biggest issues.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 9:35

I couldn't agree with you more on that. I think networking can definitely open your mind to the opportunities that exist out there.

Tina Davis: 9:44

Yes,

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 9:44

that the interesting thing that you shared with me was through your education. You were kind of you got to know students who are interested in all these different facets of writing, if you will. I went to school as well, but that was a long time ago. So let's not talk about that. But, you know, at the time, I think technical writing was a very, I wouldn't say very stereotypical narrow field. It's just that I did. I hadn't discovered it. But looks like the students today are more self aware. And do of course, the education and kind of brings forth the 3d view of what the field can look like.

Tina Davis: 10:27

Yes, yes, yes, it does.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 10:30

That's very encouraging, actually,

Tina Davis: 10:32

oh, it is, I think, because of many different forces, colleges and universities are having to really, really fly over time sell themselves to students. And as such, they are really, really open about what students can do with with a degree and what courses are available to them, and what paths are available to them. And they really want them to explore all those different paths in what should be a safe setting like college, you're not trying to pay the bills, or not trying to pay as many bills, I should say, you may have some support from family. And so if you it takes you a little longer, if you have to go a little, a little sideways, you might try one major, and then you find that that's not good for you, I've met a number of students who are either getting a certificate a minor, or even doing a double major in tech and communication, not just the North Texas, but in, but in other areas of universities. Because I think maybe they're encouraged to do something that they feel is more is more stable, and, and will make them more money. But they've always liked writing. And writing has always been the thing that they do on the side. And you know, they've always like, maybe they're, maybe they're an accountant, or maybe they're studying nursing or something like that, in their spare time in their spare time. They like to write whether it's short stories, or they are doing the group project. And you know, they're usually the one that writes, there's a writing component to the project. They're the person that's more comfortable with it. And so it gives them an opportunity to do things just for the joy of doing it. But they also find out that there's actually a career path in it. And so they're able to explore that as a secondary career path. And then sometimes when they explored a secondary career path, they find out, it's the career path. And so they make changes like that. And so I think that's why it's really exciting to get into the field now. Because traditionally, it was about you know, you're the person that works at some shop, some manufacturers and factory or whatever, and you're spitting out user guides, and you're doing things that may not be the most glamorous in the world. But now, thanks to the Internet, and technology, and all kinds of things. Now, what being a technical communicator is really expands. And so you can meet, I meet other people who wanted to be social media managers, and things like that they're really into content. And content is king and content as well. And again, they're able to explore that and, you know, still make a decent living and still be, you know, staple. And the bonuses, they do something that they generally are excited and passionate about. So I think that's great.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 13:30

I think, yeah, what you said, right, I mean, if you enjoy writing, so that's the perk of getting into technical writing, you got to enjoy writing. I think that's the basic requirement. Yes. If you don't enjoy writing, then there may be other opportunities, but definitely something to consider. Are you just getting in into this field for the money, but if you don't enjoy writing, this may, you might want to reconsider?

Tina Davis: 13:53

Yeah, exactly. That's right. Yeah. That's a very solid point. It's very good point. Yes. Yeah.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 13:58

I think so. Because most technical writers, either they were new to the field, I mean, they just started off, you know, they wanted this to be their career or, you know, interesting people like you who kind of our career changes. We've done many interesting things before they discovered technical writing, yes. And then and then, and then decided that this is going to be the

Tina Davis: 14:18

next part, whether they whether it's their soul path, or whether that's the primary path or whether it's something they're exploring as there are a lot of technical writers who are frustrated section is, quite frankly, Yeah, it is. Whether we still do our fiction writing on the side, or poetry writing on the side or whatever things that we do for creative outlet. This allows us like I said, to to do something to still touch that creative side and not turn it off when we're doing something that's more professionally.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 14:49

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's really well said, you know, you can kind of Yes, absolutely you can. You can nurture the creative side of yours, while you while you try to have a stable income Yes, yes. like writing, I think is definitely something that one should enjoy. It's saved. Yes. You know, you had a lot of experience, patina from what you've shared with us going to school. Bring a, you know, I mean, you did also mentioned that you ran into these different I mean, interesting students who want to have, I mean, these amazing careers, but personally speaking for you did did the education really puts you on a different level? I want you to share a little bit about that.

Tina Davis: 15:33

Yes. Always got a shout out for my program. They get you on T. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was really exposed to different kinds of courses, and different kinds of aspects of creating content and explaining content to different audiences. So I got to take different classes like proposal writing, I got to take, I need to learn HTML, I got to do things like create content, using Adobe products and things like that. So I got to make brochures, I got to make infographics, I got everything right had to convey information or convey an idea. And I got to use different tools, I think that's something that education really does. Well, I think once you get into the field, you're very much constrained about what tools you use based on waste, right. And you don't really have a lot of time, even if you have interest, or, or have a desire to learn other tools. You know, you don't, you don't always have as much time. But the cool thing about education is, you are exposed to multiple theories, you're exposed to multiple tools, you're, you're able to learn things, because you successfully create things, you're able to learn things when you fail at things right, and you don't do as well. And so in addition to sort of teaching me about the theory and best practices and and things that you do, as a technical communicator, I got to really be engaged with what, how that is changing, right? How construction traditionally done, to where the path is taking us now. And so in an academic setting, it was to persuade the best way to that sort of thing. Okay.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 17:17

And that's the, that's the value I want to drive through the path podcast is that if if you're interested in writing, and you know that you want to have a stable income, you can jump right into the field, but then why the education matters? And you shared with our audience, the why. And I think everything that you touched upon makes a lot of sense. I come from a similar background, and I definitely helped me, but I can, but you kind of attest to that.

Tina Davis: 17:44

Yes. Yeah. You don't know what you don't know. Right? Right. On the other hand, you also don't know what you might be interested in and might be really good at. And so I think a good program, programs that we have here, in the Dallas, Fort Worth area that a really, really striving to do the sort of expose our students to all kinds of things will expose them to a little bit of proposal writing will expose them to a little bit traditional, you know, this is how you create a guide. This is how you create instructions. This is how you create these sorts of things. And those programs are also dealing with the practicalities of the world today. Like, are we making physical Gods as much as we're redoing? Help reading help wikis, you know, for a particular like, and so you get to see, you get to see where it came from, you get to see where it's going, you get to see and you get to touch things, touch tools, and touch and put out things that that are really helpful.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 18:41

Yeah, so thank you for sharing that perspective. The doesn t know. The one thing that I would also like to know more about is you've been an entrepreneur, which fascinates because I'm I'm not a low on risk. So as you've been an entrepreneur,

Tina Davis: 18:56

I mean, I don't know if creating your podcast is low risk.

Unknown: 19:00

Oh, yeah.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 19:04

Yeah, but you've been an entrepreneur, thank you for kind of taking this undertaking. But at the end of the day, being an entrepreneur in your career, to make an income is a different, take a level of risk, in my opinion, so to speak to that a little bit and how that helps you to kind of transition into technical writing.

Tina Davis: 19:26

So one of the things that you I think you have to be or have to have to be a good technical writer to be very self directed. And you have to honestly you have to be able to work on deadlines, and you have to be able to think creatively out of the box. And those are all things that you teach yourself from get exposed to that taught when you're trying to run your own business. You don't have you know, whether as you don't have a lot of money, or you don't have staff, you know, you don't have all these things that company have small, medium or large, to help them succeed. When you're first trying to get yourself out there, especially if you're not producing anything, and you're, you're onto it, you're like, You're, you're selling a service. So you have to brand yourself, you have to, you have to really hustle, and you're putting in all the work and you're doing all the work and you're very self directed. And I think the technical that is something that is that helps me as a technical director, a lot of time communicating, sorry, a lot of times, technical writers are on teams, where they may be the sole writer, or there may be the sole writer, among other for multiple teams. And it really requires them not only sort of, you know, obviously producing the work that you're supposed to do, or days, but they're they're in charge of their own schedule, they're in charge of meeting with a subject matter experts, they're in charge, really, honestly, also putting themselves out there and reminding people what their value is to the organization. These are all things you have to do as an entrepreneur, you have to, you have to sell yourself in a certain way and go, this is the value I bring, please come to my bake shop, or in my case, please come to my events, I was trying to start my own event optimization business. And so you're really selling yourself out there, and you're really putting yourself out there and proving your value to people, but you're also very self directed, you're coming up with your schedule, or coming up with your events or coming up with with things that you're going to do and you don't in the beginning, you don't get a lot of support. And so I think those are skills that are really, really helped me change careers.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 21:42

Oh, my Yeah, everything that you just shared, right? To me, it's like checking off boxes, as you're talking about, especially if you're a loan writer, what skills can be transferable from any background that you've had? But if you've been an entrepreneur, you're trying to market yourself. Right. And that's something that technical writers, I think, again, this is anecdotal, but I feel technical writers can be can shy away from?

Tina Davis: 22:11

Yes, yes, I did find that a lot of a lot of people that that go on down this path, whether they're in the industry, or whether in school, they're very, they're very kind of shy. And I don't know if that's just sort of the stereotypical shy writer type person who, you know, kind of is in their own head and has their own ideas or what about it, but they don't tend to put themselves out there. And we need to do that more. But I also find that they also tend to be and it goes back to your original question about things I've learned, you have to be very organized, you have to be very detailed oriented, not in this in this position. But as an entrepreneur, you have to be very organized, you can't, you know, there's not a lot of wiggle room to to kind of let details let things slip through the cracks. So those are things that I've learned. And those are things that I see in other technical writers, that they're very organized, and they're very, you know, sort of thing, they know what the job is, and they've got a detailed, methodical way of getting the job done. Yeah,

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 23:15

yeah, I mean, that's true. But one thing that I'm really interested in is, if a technical writer had to show their value promote themselves as an entrepreneur, Gina, do you have any suggestions for our audience that they can take away from your experience?

Tina Davis: 23:34

I think it would be helpful to start thinking about things in terms of what value what is your company produce? Are you on those teams that are producing something that's valuable for the company, we don't talk enough about how it really matters, that if you're writing for a product, that that is really integral to that company's mission, that you need to find a way to get yourself aligned with that product. So you, I think, if there is something that technical writers can work on, is thinking or being more aware of terms of sort of the dollars and cents, bottom line of things. And so we're very focused on if we're on a particular team. And you know, our job is to write guides or instructions for a particular product or whatever we're doing. Maybe we don't think about like, what value that particular product has to the company or to the company's customers. And, you know, thinking about writing things that speak to that value, because if you're on a team or you're on a group, where the company sees value, you're going to get more resources, you're going to get more help. And so you want to put yourself in positions where you can, if you're not the primary, right Maybe you're helping the primary writer, you know, review their documents or whatever, and try to get yourself on teams that are that are producing, you know, high value toxic thinking, thinking those terms thinking in those terms.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 25:15

Yeah, it may not be easy, but definitely trying to see how you contribute. One thing I think I take away from your perspective is creating your deliverable. Your documentation as a product itself? Yes, you're right. That's what you were alluding to,

Tina Davis: 25:32

yes, that's a very good way to put it. And thinking of your documentation as a product, and thinking something of it that that that is bringing value in and thinking of it in, in its own way, as a marketing document, you start thinking about that, in those terms, not only will you fulfill your goal of obviously, conveying the correct information to the user that needs it, and all those things and, and compliance issues or whatever, but you are also proving your value to your employer. And you were helping to burnish the brand of the employer. So you're bringing something to the game,

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 26:14

something to the game. I think that's awesome. Absolutely. I have a lot of questions for you, Tina. And the more you share with me the more questions I have. But I think I'm going to try to go back to some questions that I had jotted down that I wanted to ask, in the interest of our audience, you are now working for a nonprofit. And typically, when you think about technical writing, technical communications, you're thinking about high tech companies. And you're not that being technical and all of that, but there is this whole different industry that you can make your career In, and you made it there. You're in that career. So I want you to share a little bit about working for a nonprofit, in terms of how did you get in there, what your current role is, and any advice that you have for somebody considering technical writing in

Tina Davis: 27:08

for a non profit. So my experience is pretty, pretty interesting. And they think pretty different. The the nonprofit that I work with, has a partner in the the for profit sphere, I actually served as an intern for that for profit company. And that's how I got noticed, there's always so I was producing documentation. And I graduated after this internship, they offered me a full time position. But they offered me a position as an analyst. So I'm a technically a product specialist. But again, all of those skills that I use, when I'm writing documentation, which I still do, as part of my job, I'm bringing to the product, you know, kind of before it's finished, right, it's so those are all transferable skills, I think some of the things that were different about working with nonprofits for years, again, you don't have the same resources that you would have in a for profit company. And like, your nonprofits tend to be smaller organizations, and you kind of do multiple things you ever handed multiple things. But again, if you've worked in nonprofits, maybe as a volunteer, or you've tried to run your own business, you know, having different hats on, and doing different roles and doing different things is not not that out of the ordinary. But I think that the benefit to working, that nonprofit is devoted to one singular goal. And everybody's working toward that one singular goal. And it's usually in an area that is solving a problem, you know, that needs to be solved in a in a in a very large scale. And so you get some satisfaction out of not only doing your job well, but solving a particular problem, you know, whether you were you know, working for destroying trying to black cars, I'm trying to come up with examples that aren't particularly specific. If you're working for a nonprofit, they're usually trying to solve a big goal, but that hasn't easily been solved. And you have some satisfaction and working towards solving that big goal. But I think that a lot of times you don't get working at a for profit corporation.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 29:24

Yeah, I that that definitely resonates with me. Like you said, you were working for a for profit. And you can notice there, so congratulations for landing the gig that you're in. But in terms of building a portfolio for somebody who knows that nonprofit is what I want to do. Is there anything different that a writer would do in your perspective, like if you let's say if you want to build a team of tech writers, what would you look for? in their experience?

Tina Davis: 29:55

I think you would think about ways you are worked in that nonprofit or that nonprofit sphere, that might have been outside of writing, because that experience would also be helpful for them. So if you're working for a medical nonprofit, and you work in that medical sphere, then I think even if you haven't been writing that information, that experience that energy that you bring from working within that sphere would be helpful for you. Okay, so if you're interested in working in nonprofits, don't think about, well, I just want to work in a nonprofit, which nonprofit, like you can work in medicine, social work, like there's all kinds of different types of nonprofits, you have to really kind of focus yourself and go, what kind of nonprofit, okay, and start gearing your experience towards that, because you might be, you might get in the door, not necessarily just for your writing experience as a technical technical writer, but get in the door, because you have experience in that field. And in that area. That's one thing, too, a lot of nonprofits aren't looking for technical writers, so to speak, but though, we're looking for people who can write manage their content. So you see a lot of content, people, content writers, social media, things where you know, writing and communication skills are at a premium. I think that those are also things you want to look for, if you're looking for a nonprofit job. So if you are, if you have an interest in something in social work, or things like that, you're some sort of social problem, and you want to work for a particular nonprofit, your thing is you like to write and you're the good communicator, and you like doing presentations, like teaching people. There you go, that's your end.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 31:44

That's okay. I think what I really liked about what you shared, something that I was unaware of was, I think of nonprofit as just one monolithic thing. And what you brought to my attention is that nonprofits have their own specializations, their own niche, and you need to start building your, like, when you're working for a for profit, you think of the industry that you're going to go into, right, like medical, cyber security, beat, whatever it is. Similarly, if you're thinking about nonprofits, you want to think about, I guess the word that comes to my mind is the industry that Yeah, they are part of, yeah, and what problem are they trying to solve and to build your career in that direction, or at least start building your skills and awareness in that, in that direction. So that is something very, very critical, which had never come to my mind. And I've talked with enough technical writers out there who sometimes come asked me, hey, I want to get into nonprofit and I, the only thing that I can tell them as Oh proposal writing, but what you open my eyes to this world of thinking, that is alien to me that you have to think in terms of the industry that the nonprofit is part of content in general content, and you can break you can you can be a contributor at so many different ways.

Tina Davis: 33:04

Exactly, exactly. proposal writing these, as you remarked on is the the way that everybody sort of is aware of and, and might that's how they might get in write a proposal proposal writing is something that not everybody does, does well is is extremely hard, extremely difficult, that you've got to really be passionate about it. But there are other ways if you're you know, I don't want people who hear this that may not be into proposal writing think that that there aren't other ways you can get in. If you have if you have a flair for graphic design, that's creating content. And if you have experience or knowledge in that particular nonprofits here, that's a way you can get in but you'll never see it advertised as a technical writer to see, you'll see it advertised to something else. And so think about all those those ways you can bring that your knowledge and experience in in technical communication, and marry it with your interest in solving this particular problem or helping this particular thing and go in that direction.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 34:10

I always take away something personally for myself. And this has been one such conversation again. Now. We've touched upon many, many things. Is there anything that you would like to add that I may not have asked?

Tina Davis: 34:23

You know, I think it's important whether you're starting this career path for the first time or you're like me, he's changing careers midlife. I think it's important to know how busy you get and carve out some time to learn. I place I put in place a high value on education, but it doesn't always have to be formal education. And there are so many ways to learn new skills to learn new things and to learn about new things and get your hands on new things that that I think especially those of us who have been in the career a while We get bogged down in our day to day, you know, jobs and tasks and what we need to do, or, or maybe we decided, you know, it's time to change companies that we're working for. And maybe we're focused now on a new job, but we don't spend enough time or we don't devote that time to whether you want to call it training, continuing education, or just just doing something that you're not the best at and devoting some brainpower to that because I, I put it all under the, the, the umbrella of creativity, but you got to give yourself some time to be creative. So if you're like me, and you're frustrated writer, you know, I think I, you know, obviously, there'll be ebbs and flows, middle times when you have more time to spend to it. But don't forget your writing, if you got into this, because if you got into writing, because you like to write poetry, you know, give yourself self time to write poetry. Or if you are, you know, a technical writer who has some design skills, you know, don't let those fall by the wayside. Just do things, whether you're, you create a brochure for somebody because they need help with something or you just create something just to create, like, spend some time. Give yourself some time to be creative and to learn new things. And I think that'll go a long way.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 36:24

Yeah, that's so important to know what you said, right? The way I hear it from you is that knee time, yeah, that knee time that can give you some time to kind of like we get into this industry, because we enjoy writing. But at that, after a point, it becomes a drawl. Yes, yeah, you need to go rediscover why you got into this in the first place. Exactly. And like you said, If you enjoy writing poetry, go back to it. And that's my go to actually, what I'm trying to say is I, I fully agree with you on that to cultivate things that have fallen by the wayside, because that that eventually helps you, in your day to day, eventually.

Tina Davis: 37:05

Yes, and I think just being creative, generally, makes it easier for you to be creative when you have to do it on a deadline. When you have to solve a problem outside of a box, or, or you have to do something at work, and it requires a creative solution. If you're already flexing those muscles when you don't need them. When you need them the most. it'll, it'll be so easy to too easy. Or I should say, I'm gonna say it's so easy, it's easy, it will be easier to flex those muscles when you really need them. And I know we all get into, you know, myself. Also, like, I find myself going, you know, what's the last time they were, you know, something, a short story or a little essay or anything? I got it. I got it. I got to spend some time and I get to flex those muscles. But you don't want to lose it last time I designed something. Yeah, I think I did anything that was creative that was outside wasn't word for.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 38:01

I like your phrase flexing those muscles. Because when you don't flex those muscles, they can waste away. They can dust away. So you've got to take him with away. Exactly. And you already have it. So to flex them. It won't be too hard to build.

Tina Davis: 38:15

It shouldn't it shouldn't be too hard to build it ideally, you'd ideally, ideally when you've been in shape, and maybe you use like the quarantine wait, go back it should feel but easier to get those pounds off because Yeah. Because you know, but if you're starting from the beginning, it's a little rough, too. Right?

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 38:36

Right. But but not to give up on that you're not give up on it. No, no, no, don't give up on it. Oh my God, this has been such a fascinating conversation. Tito. I think one last question before I let you go. Besides all the advice that you've given us to our audience, right, your different insights that you've shared with us, the other any resources that you would like to recommend, if you have a local I don't know how

Tina Davis: 39:03

what your reach is going to be for your podcast, I assume you're going to be worldwide. If you have a local STC chapter, find your local STC chapter and get involved meet people network. If you're here in the DFW area, please find our Lone Star chapter and meet people cool people like Zohra and other technical writers in the area, you know, young, old all in between people who, that's why I dig about it. There are people who have been technical writers, all their careers have been people who were doing this a second career used to be teachers and used to do all kinds of other things. And you can actually meet people who are teaching educators right now who are teaching technical writers, new students, and so all of that is really cool. So find your ostc Tucker. There's a blog. I'm into It would be probably Tom Johnson's I'd rather be writing

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 40:02

I'd rather be writing.

Tina Davis: 40:04

Yeah, he's kind of one of my favorite ones. That's the first one that pops in my mind.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 40:08

I think we've had such a fascinating conversation. I really appreciate it. As you can see, I'm kind of at a loss for words, but really fun. Thank you for inviting me to this. Yeah, it's been my pleasure. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I want to thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with us, Tina. Thank you and have a wonderful, wonderful day.

Tina Davis: 40:31

Thank you. You

Unknown: 40:32

too.

Zohra Mubeena-Mutabanna: 40:33

Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share on your social media. To help me reach a wider audience. subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app, including Apple, Google or Spotify. Follow us on Twitter at insight tech comm or visit us at w w w dot insight tech comm dot show. For the latest updates. Catch you on another episode.