SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hello listeners. If you are curious about technical communications, then this podcast is for you. On each episode, I will interview a guest who will share the unique journey. This is Inside TechCom with Zahra Madhavana. Let's get started. I'm honored to welcome today's guest, Beth Olfin. Beth, how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I'm doing great, Zora. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Absolutely. Thank you for joining me on a Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Oh, glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

And I'm glad to have you here. So ready to get started?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Okay. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I am currently in Techcom. I am a technical writer working with or at NetScout. I have been there 24 years, I think it is. I haven't calculated that recently.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

That's a long innings. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I did not expect. If you had told me back when I started with it's actually been bought out because we are in telecom, that I would be with the same company, I would have laughed at you, especially, you know, after experiencing the boom and the bubble. But you know, the reason you stay at a place is because the people around you. So that's why I'm still there. So anyway, 24 years. And part of those years I've managed some small groups of people. But right now I am an individual performer and still working there. It started out as a small startup called iNet and then was bought out by Tektronics Communications and then Danaher. And then now we are Net Scout and it's been Net Scout since 2015. So that's work. So personally, I am married, been married for 26 years, and have two daughters. 17, Olivia and Elizabeth, who is 15.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

And then we have two dogs.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

So you have a full plate.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Full plate, you're right. Right? Working full-time. Yep. Yes. Yes. And a mother's all about that.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

It's all about that. And I think it's a beautiful aspect about. I'm a mother too, and I have two girls. You're almost an empty nester, probably, with your first one ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Getting closer. I can't believe she's filling out college applications. And oh my gosh. Yes, it's hard to believe.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

It's another chapter in your life.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So you have to straddle technical writing and full-time parenting.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Absolutely. As an You know what that's all about too. And you've got younger ones.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I've got younger ones, yes. Take more time.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

They do. But it's, I guess they sort of complement our journey. You're right. And help us discover things that we wouldn't have known otherwise. The strength that we have, right? As a mother, I suppose. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Yes. And we get really good at time management, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Very good. Yes, absolutely. And I think being individual contributors, you know, sometimes when you're not part of any software development lifecycle, you time management is critical. So this area of this facet of our life helps us figure out how to manage our time better, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

But thank you for sharing that beautiful information with us. You know, you said you've been with this company 24 years, which is tremendous. So you've seen the dot-com boom. Right. As you called it the boom and the bubble and the bust.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Exactly. How has that journey been? It's exciting at times, but then sad at times because you see your team being built up and a lot of great people around you, but then you see your team being dissected and people being let go. But then you see those people who got let go go on to brighter things, so you knew that it was meant to be. So that's the positive of it. But yeah, it's been a roller coaster. I guess that's why I think back to all those changes, the ups and the downs, and to still be at that same company. It is an amazing thing because there's not that many people in this day and age. You know, in my father's generation, that's what they did. He stayed with, he worked for Xerox and he stayed with Xerox for 40 plus years. Oh wow. Retired with them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

I would agree with you. That's pretty rare. When I started my career, I thought I would probably be with one company. But of course, I switched careers from programming to technical writing. And I know that you have an interesting background, and we are going to get to that. But yeah, you're right. To be in one company for a long time, as long as you have been there, is remarkable.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

You don't hear about that much anymore. No, not really. I actually I haven't. You're probably one of the few that I've heard from who's been with for such a long time. Because as companies get acquired, that attrition happens. But you know, you mentioned that you have managed small groups and you have also been an individual contributor. I want you to talk a little bit about that. You know, when you managed, what skill sets did you have or did you acquire? You know, so you've at the same company, so that's a pretty interesting thing. It's uh can you please feel free to share as much as you can about that?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I can't remember the exact years that I started, but I had been there several years, and the group had grown to, gosh, I think it was maybe 20 writers. So that was a lot for our manager to manage. So the idea was to start creating a leader so that we maybe like a project manager, maybe that's what they called us, to where we took over the day-to-day management of a number of writers, and then the project managers then reported up to our tech pubs manager. So I think I was the first project manager in the tech writing group, and I think they chose me number one because of my experience within the group itself, but also had any leadership experience. But I think what I showed was being able to manage projects on my own without much oversight from management. So they saw that as somebody who could potentially lead others and manage others. And I'll be honest with you, I was young and intimidated by the role because I was now having to manage people that used to be my teammates.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And for somebody who had never studied management, I probably at that point had taken some seminars, some workshops maybe on project management, but not extensive, any kind of extensive training on management or anything. So I'll be honest with you, I I don't think I was very good at first.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Oh, but I I think it's a journey. Exactly. The fact that you were even considered for that, and then you were in that role, speaks to the skill set that you had probably innately, and then you went on to develop, right? We are all a work in progress in our careers. Absolutely. If you take that approach, then you can make the most of that opportunity and build upon it. So you you got that break.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

You're absolutely right. We are a work in progress for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's how I look at my career. And from what you're saying, you know, you attended webinars, you didn't have any project management experience. How did the team take that when you were made the project manager?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I think you have personalities that didn't mind it at all. And then you had the personalities that might have been a little resentful.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Maybe because they thought they would have been better at it, or why didn't they get asked? So I think that's just that's just normal.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

That's yes. So from your perspective, I want to ask you, how did you manage the people aspect? Because it looks like you may have got a handle by attending webinars and you're not figuring out how am I going to manage a project. It was an innate skill and then you built upon it. But from the people side of it, what would you like to share?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

That was the hardest part, is the people management. Because I was, you know, in the past, friends and coworker friends, you know, you talk with each other and you vent and you get through hard times and and good times together. But then when you become a people manager and people come to you with issues, it's a whole different perspective. I think that was the hardest part for me with people coming with personal issues and me having to give direction to people, right? Which as an introvert I'm not comfortable doing. And then there's the conflict management. Oh, over the years I've learned so much about it. And when you first deal with conflict in the workplace, it's not comfortable because of so many years of, you know, I'm at I'm now at a comfortable point in my career where I'm better at it. Like you said, it's a work in progress. So with the more conflicts you have to manage, you get more experience with it. But that was the hardest part was when two people would come to me at a standstill because they could not work with each other. It was before I was a parent. I think being a parent helps.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. Because you're looking at these two adults who are acting like children at times, and you just want to, you know, as a parent, you just say, Well, I would tell my kids to give each other a hug and work it out. But before I had kids, I didn't even have that perspective. So I just luckily I I would, you know, I had HR manager who I could go talk to, and then of course my manager to help give tips and ways to work through these issues and whether to escalate it to HR. So I would say, yes, those first couple of years managing people is was definitely difficult, but it was worth the journey. I learned so much.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

What I take away from this awesome conversation that we are having is you built a community around you so that you could lean on somebody when somebody came to you to lead on.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Absolutely. Absolutely. Right? Right. Because my manager was more experienced than me. And of course, the HR manager was dealing with the broader range of people and people issues. So we've got to have that community, or otherwise we go insane.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Exactly. And you know, somebody who is, let's say, in your today is in that position, who has been selected to become a team lead slash project lead and has to manage people as part of that role. What would you advise then?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

The first thought that comes to mind is don't take yourself too seriously. And that might have been my one of my issues early on was because you're put into that role, you think you have to come across a certain way to come across a manager, you know, as somebody who knows what they're doing at every moment in time, and somebody that should be taken seriously. And now looking back, it's like just be yourself, don't take yourself too seriously. Help these people get through their projects, you know, take things out of their way, uh, roadblocks. If they're having trouble getting, you know, making progress, how can you help them? But don't think you've got to come across as in their in their space all the time. And because of my lack of experience, you know, I thought I had this image in my mind of what a manager or a project manager should be. So now it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh, that's uh that's such beautiful advice, Beth, because I have never been a manager, and one of the big reasons I would say is it is intimidating. And but sometimes life gives you that opportunity and you want to grab it, you don't want to regret it. And what you just said, not to take yourself too seriously is extremely important, especially when you are put in that, I would say it's a demanding role.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yes, it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:06

And you go from an individual contributor to a manager, sometimes it's quick and you may not be trained, you may of course, yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Most of the time, I would, I would say, yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Right. So, yeah, I mean, I've got some really good takeaways from here. Build a community so that you can lean on as a leader, and then don't take yourself too seriously. Two very important things. Right. You should be you should be writing a book about that. I I I would I would love to, I would be one of the first ones to read them because these are these are pointers. I mean, you know about these things on a day-to-day basis, but then you tend to forget.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

You're right, until you reflect back on it, which you were helping me do.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yes, absolutely. So thank you for sharing that with us.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Now, before you became a technical writer, I know because we've had this conversation that you were, you know, you were trained in accounting. That's right. So I want you to talk about how did you go from accounting to technical writing?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

That's funny. You know, my father was he I told you he worked at Xerox and he was a technical trainer and worked on documentation for years. And I had actually gone in to work with him when I was in middle school. And so I saw what he did, but it never crossed my mind that that's what I wanted to do, probably because I was so shy and the thought of being a trainer. Um, I didn't know there could be a separation from what his job was. So I probably said, no, I I don't want to be a trainer, therefore I don't want to do documentation. So I dismissed it. The reason, or or at least I should say one of the reasons, maybe I should say one of the main reasons, I decided on accounting was some accounting courses in my senior high school. And I look back now and it was really just bookkeeping, but they called it accounting. So I really loved those bookkeeping classes, and I thought, wow, maybe this is the degree I want to to continue on. And so that's what I based my college degree on. And I'm thinking back to you know, the writing that I experienced in college. I never really enjoyed that kind of writing, but I was never really exposed to technical writing classes.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Okay. So what kind of writing was it that you did not like?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

The literature writing, having to write papers about and to pull things out of literature or so the creative writing. I consider myself resourceful, but not very creative, like creative from new ideas, but I'm very resourceful, meaning you can show me one idea and I might evolve that idea, if that makes sense. So that's just how my brain works. I'm not a new idea creative kind of person. So I think I was probably intimidated by the creative writing and just bored with the the literature writing, you know. Okay. Yeah. So I think if I had taken a tech writing course, that might have spurred some interest. So I think I was a senior in college, and a the couple I was living with, because my parents had moved out of state, they had their own company that did customized training and documentation, and they actually used to work with my dad at Xerox. What a coincidence, huh? Yes, yes. So they needed somebody part-time because they were really busy at the time. It was the 80s, it was the boom. And they needed somebody just to come help, you know, do simple edits, implement. And so that's what I did. And it was good money, it was better money than going to work retail or you know, in fast food. I didn't have to, you know, go work and come home smelling like burgers and fries, right? And so I got a taste of, even though I wasn't writing, I got a taste of what they were doing. And at one point, they I would say just kind of tossed a project at me and said, We need a procedure for how to put this box together. I think it was a box that a an office supply store was selling to where it was sold flat, but they needed instructions on how to fold it because it had very complex folding and cardboard inserts and it was it turned it into like a a box for storing, I think it was modeled trains or something. So you can imagine it was just had different size slots in it. So he just gave me the box, it was all flat at that time, and I just gave it a try. And I had so much fun. To me, it was like a puzzle. And yeah, so that was my first exposure into technical writing versus the more I would call it complex school writing.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

You know, in the other interviews that I have done, this has a similar thread has emerged where somebody either found that talent in the writer, in that future writer, and said, You're just gonna do it for me. So, how how was that experience for you? What did it tell you?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

That I was so close to getting an accounting degree. I wasn't sure I was enjoying the accounting I was doing. And honestly, I can't remember the timing of it, but it was, I think it was my senior year. But by then I was like, I knew I was gonna get my degree, but it actually changed my path a little bit because I was gonna do a five-year degree plan to get my master's in accounting. And at that point, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to get a four-year degree and go from there. So I got my degree and I tried, you know, back then we didn't have internet, so I was cold calling out of newspaper advertisements for jobs, but I didn't intern. I didn't intern in accounting because I didn't have that perspective of how important it is to intern and get practical experience. And so I would go down for an interview for like, say, an accounting manager for a small office, and they would say, Well, tell me about your experience, and I'd be like, I don't have any. So it was a couple of interviews like that, and I was still working part-time for this company, and at one point they offered me a job like a starting technical writer, and I decided to take that chance, and I'm so glad I did.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Wow, did you expect to be in that career for this long?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

I think at that point, oh, at that point, no, I did not know, but I knew at least I had a start, and I had also studied for the CPA exam and failed the CPA exam, which is just for the record, or so I hear it's very normal to fail the CPA exam the first time around, kind of like the bar. But going through that process of very intense studying of accounting and then being so frustrated at the results, that was also part of my decision. You know what? This technical writing seems a lot more interesting than accounting.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

So I would agree with you on that though. Yes, selfishly.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

I can't imagine myself still in accounting. To me, I don't think it would be it would just be monotonous. Whereas technical writing to me changes. Even with the same company, people say, How can you be exact out for so long and you're still in the tech writing group? I just tell them it's every project is new to me. It's like a puzzle, and sometimes it can be overwhelming that puzzle, but once, you know, as I'm figuring it out, it's fascinating to me, and that's that's what drives me.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

You know what? To me, you hit the nail on the head. To anybody that thinks that technical writing is boring, you gotta step in, you gotta, you know, wet your toe. Exactly. To find out how fascinating this field can be, how challenging it is.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

I mean, just to what you said, you you know, you got to writing is probably a very small part of your right. Really good. Can can you share that? I mean, I harp about this all the time to my non-techcom colleagues, but can you share what a typical day in your life is?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Sure. It's not the you you would guess a tech writer would spend most of their time physically writing, but a lot of it is the pre work and the research up to that point. So it could be basically my process is you know, starting with some kind of document plan and the pieces that I need to put together. So I would from that plan pick one feature and start emailing my subject matter experts and start conversations with them. Maybe get them on the phone. Maybe they need to explain something more. It's easier to explain over the phone versus in an email. And so it's just gathering that information. We've got different source material where I can research, whether it be feature specification documents that were written by engineering, where it talks about how they are going to develop a feature or a product. I can dig through those. Or maybe from a higher level view from our product managers, where they talk about what they want the product to do at a high level. And so comparing those, did product management or did engineering meet product management's expectations? You know, is there do those docs synchronize with each other as far as the vision for that product and for that feature? So that's a lot of reading. And with this 5G coming out, I'll have to go off and do some research on telecom in general. So it's a lot of research, a lot of reading. And until you finally sit down to actually decide what you're going to write.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I mean, that was in a nutshell, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Very high very helpful because for somebody that is thinking about becoming a technical writer, you have to have that bent of mind to go research. Yes. And to talk to people. If you're thinking that you're going to sit in your little, I guess, cubicle and not talk to people, that is not true. You have to have, and sometimes you have to be the initiator of those conversations. You have to be proactive.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Would you absolutely? And I think one of our members, I think it was during our mentor panel discussion, she also hit the nail on the head of, I think it was during the advice where she said you you need to be curious. And I think that's what makes a good tech writer is being curious, not settling for just what's written, whatever source that they're pulling from, is being curious and asking those questions. And to your point, not just sitting in a a cubicle expecting people to throw information at you. If you think about being a technical writer, you really need to know that is it's a lot of research and think about do you love research? The idea of reading a lot before you actually get down to writing.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Now, do you also get to be hands-on with the whatever technology that you're going to be writing about?

SPEAKER_01 24:49

With the products, we usually have some lab products that we can quote unquote play with. Not in the sense of how our customers. I don't get the view into the complex systems that our customers have, like Verizon and ATT. You know, I can't access those systems, they don't want us on there. But but we do get the hands-on with lab equipment to access the GUIs. When I did hardware, I was able to get down in our lab and take pictures and you know, see the boards and be able to do that. So the hands-on is important, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Quote unquote, the word you used play with. I love that metaphor because it makes the job that much more fun, right? Because and I think I think most technical writers, I don't want to overgeneralize this, but I've heard this term being used. We play with technology, we play with and we are hands-on. Right. So it's not all writing. It is there is a practical side to that experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Especially if you're in software or hardware, in technology. I've always been with technology, and based on what you've shared, you're also a technical writer for telecom, again, which is technology. And you you've done both hardware and software because you mentioned GUIs.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Right, right. And so when we play with those GUIs and get hands-on, it turns all those source documentation and all those high-level views into more of a real view for us.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yes, yes. Now I want to go back to your experience as a project manager. Having had that accounting background, did it help you with project management?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I think, in the sense of detail oriented. And that could be more of my personality, and maybe that's what also drew me to accounting was the details of the numbers. I just really loved the checks and balances of accounting. And so I think that part I could say relates to the project management because you really do need to be re-detail oriented. Number one, to be a project manager, but also the tech writing to be able to discern as you're reading through all this research of engineering documents and product management documents, is being able to discern the gems of information out of all the noise. If that makes sense. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Let me clarify: the reason I asked this question is I've encountered conversations where technical writers are intimidated and generally not financially aware. So when they are given opportunities to grow into management, that becomes a hurdle, not having a financial understanding. So, from your experience, you know, what you said, being detail-oriented, be it in accounting or technical writing, is a skill that you need to develop, right? If you don't have it, you need to develop because being detail-oriented is critical. But how important is it to be financially aware, to be in the role that you were, had you not had the accounting experience, what would you have done?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I think in my case, because I was not, I was more of a limited manager in the sense that to your specific question about financial, I did not deal with budgets or salaries from the financial perspective. So just in my limited experience, mine was my management was more from the managing projects of people and then managing people, not the budgets enough. Is is am I understanding your question correctly?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yes, yes, you are. I think that's uh that's an important distinction that you are not managing budgets. Now, however, to manage a project, right, you're going to look at the trends and you're going to look at the burnout charts and whatnot. Did you have to do that?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

From the financial perspective?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Not from a financial perspective, but more from a statistical perspective.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Just from milestones and cross-functional teams. From that perspective, yes. So having to multitask several different projects at once and manage those milestones and conflicts of those milestones, and then the people, several people managing their different milestones and their conflicts. So yes, that was something that, you know, like you said, as it's something that we develop.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

You develop, okay. Is there any specific tool that you use to manage projects or to rather track them, if you will?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Over the years, I think I've dabbled in, is it called Microsoft Project? So there were a couple years where we managed projects in that software. But I think if I could say majority is just Excel. And so there were different tools I created, you know, for a couple of years there were, I think you would ask about metrics.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Metrics, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Percentage of complete. And so there were a couple of years where, you know, developing spreadsheets to track, you know, percentage complete of the whole project versus each individual feature, and what percentage were we complete. So I I think my comfort level was Excel because I could customize it to what the current needs were. You know, what was management requesting? What metrics were they requesting at that time? So it would be Microsoft Project and then Excel.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I'm pretty intimidated by Microsoft Excel. I mean, I can use it, but I I have never used it for metrics. So for somebody like me, would you say that these are skills that I can pick up, or what resources would you recommend that I look at?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

I would say I am I would not say I'm an advanced user of Excel. So I would say definitely Excel is for beginner users, and then you could build those skills up to do amazing things that I don't even know about. Because there's charts and things. I never got into using charts and um pivot tables. I have not used that. That's something I would like to learn. So it's very it's a great tool for that, but it's also for the beginner users where you just need to Google or get into the help and learn a few things to be able to figure out a couple of calculations that are just perfect for you know that moment or whatever simple metrics you need at the time.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

So but from my takeaway from this piece of information is that it is achievable, it is surmountable.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Oh, with Excel? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. And I don't remember much about Microsoft Project. Have you worked with Microsoft Project?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Not at all. I have never used Microsoft Project. And the I've been at many different companies, and at no company has the I would say the uh the doc manager used Excel. They've used other tools. So I've not encountered a manager who has used Excel, except in my recent experience where one of my peers used Excel to do some fantastic metrics.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Oh, right. Yes. You can get dangerous with Excel.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah, you can, yeah, that's right. And I was pretty impressed by that. And that's why I'm thinking of for someone who is considering, right? Oh, what tools would I need to know? Looks like you could start start with Excel. If let's say you're the loan rider and you're starting to track your own project, you just need to and you don't even have to take classes, you could just Google up and develop, uh, learn about it. Absolutely. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Very intuitive.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Very into it is very intuitive. Thank you for saying that. Yes. So, and again, we use the metaphor journey. So it's okay to not have all these skill sets when you're given the opportunity. You can develop these and you can start with the simplest of tools that are available to you without spending too much money.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right. And it's just when you have that opportunity, it's learning to make the most of it. Because I think back to when that company gave me a chance. And I think it was just being the curious person I am that's what drove me to want to know more about what is this technical writing and what is everything that I could learn and what tools. So it's just having that desire to learn the tools to gain those skills.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah. Again, coming back to our conversation, curiosity is at the top. I probably would think that if anybody is getting into technical writing, you're not studying towards it. Very rarely is somebody studying towards it. You happen to chance upon it. So curiosity is is very critical for you to discover this niche field. Right. So you're so if you've discovered technical writing, you probably are already curious.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Right?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Right. Now, what made you jump over? Did you know a technical writer or did you have to do both at one point?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Oh in your job? Oh, Beth, you're smart, you're turning the tables on me. But I I will answer that question. This interview is about you, and I want to talk about you. But I I also was interviewed at the start of my career. I was a a wannabe developer, and I had no clue about technical writing. And I originally come from India. And I was working for a media company, and I was in a pretty weird role. It was called information analyst. But I had to, it was a customer-facing role where customers would come to me with technical details, and I had to convey that to my developers. So I was the liaison, that was the word that was used to describe my role. And sometimes I had to write what the customers wanted. And because it was a media company, I ended up doing a little bit of writing sometimes. And I also had an undergrad in English literature.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Oh, that helped.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

So that helped. So, you know, but when I got married and I came to the US, I was like, what do I do now? I got to figure out my next steps. And somebody said, Hey, maybe you should consider technical writing. So just like you, you know. And I interviewed for that position. And the lady who interviewed me, she said, You suck. I'm sorry, I can't hire you. But but that was actually, and she was actually being helpful. And she said, Don't take me seriously. I think you have the talent, but I recommend that you kind of train yourself a little bit on it. Because the reason she said that was I was being very, I was taking a very creative approach to technical writing. It's a different mindset, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

And thanks to her advice, I went on to do a master's in technical writing. In technical and professional writing. Oh wow. I didn't know that. Yes. And uh so I did have to train myself and I'm thankful for it because it did open so many opportunities to me to really understand and respect this field. And I had some great professors. I'm told that they were some of the early trailblazers of this profession. So I was very fortunate.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

And at that time, did you appreciate her feedback?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

At that time, you know, when you're young, you think you know everything.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

But looking back, you appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yes, absolutely. I think after I got into my master's program, it was that that it was not an easy admission process. That application took oh, it sucked the life out of me, if I will, if I can say that. It was a very strenuous application process. And I got scholarship because I couldn't afford it. I was a foreign student.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Oh, I see. And this was in Boston, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:38

This was in Boston, uh, from one of the uh good universities, private universities. So so no, at the time to answer your question, I did not. But after I went through the rigorous application process, I realized that I'm glad that I did not get an easy break, very honestly. That's good. Yeah. So I I think I appreciate it. I I'm thankful to her.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

But thanks for asking that question.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

It's a good attitude.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yes. Oh my. This has been such a great conversation, Beth.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

It's good to catch up.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Yes, it is. It was this was like catch up to me. We never get to sit and catch up. So this was like, Beth, sit down, let's talk. Absolutely. Right. Is there anything, Beth, that you would like to, you know, just last words that you would like to say to anybody that is trying to enter this field or changing their career into this profession?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Oh I think what we've touched on is uh stay curious. That will help you gain your skills as a technical communicator. And also, I think that piece that we touched on with don't take yourself too seriously. I think we touched on it from the management perspective, but just in general, as a tech writer, as you start working with team members and getting feedback, don't get too attached. Someone once told me that. Don't get too attached to, you know, this whatever piece, the content that you write, just because you put your you know, blood, sweat, and tears in it, doesn't mean that somebody doesn't have some really good feedback. And so to be open and to keep learning from others as you go on this journey, we're always learning.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

So to your point, when we're young, we think we know everything. The sooner we can grow out of that.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

That's a gem of advice. I mean, not to take, I've been in that position of myself where I've taken something too seriously that I've wrote written about. You get too personally attached to it.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Gem of advice, not to get personally attached to it at the end of the day, not to take yourself seriously and keep that curiosity and that spark in you. Absolutely. Yes, perfect. This was a great conversation, Beth. Well, thanks for having me, Zora. This was fun. Yes, absolutely. And it was fun talking to you. This is it for today. Thank you. All right. I want to thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with us, Beth. Have a lovely day.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yes, you too, Zora. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

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